ترجمه ی فارسی این مصاحبه در شماره ی بعد چراغ منتشر خواهد شد

An Iranian Lesbian, from City of Rasht to California

Arsham Parsi

Please introduce yourself for Cheraq Magazine readers.

My name is Mali Kigasari. I was born in Rasht, Iran in 1958, youngest of five, with two brothers and two sisters. I moved to England after graduating from high school in 1978.  I returned to Iran and after passing the university entrance exam, Concoor, attended the College of Translation, in Tehran in pursuit of a BA in English Literature.

The end of my freshman year coincided with "Cultural Cleansing," whereby the theocratic government sought to expel all students that they deemed anti revolutionary. With no chance of returning to school, I went to Spain on a two-week vacation that lasted two years. In Spain, I learned the Spanish language and supported myself by translating for Iranians who wished to settle in Spain or were waiting for their "Green Cards" to arrive.

In 1982, I moved to Berkeley, California on a student visa and settled in the Bay Area. I graduated from UC Berkeley with a major in Anthropology and minor in Political Economy of Industrial Societies. After being an entrepreneur for twenty years, I obtained a paralegal certificate, which allows me to work in Immigration law and put my language and legal skills in order to further the goals of immigrants in the United States.

What does "Human Rights" mean to you?

In my view, Human Rights is the most basic rights that is given by laws of societies.  These rights are often taken away by governments or even cultural practices. These rights include the rights of minorities to be protected from the tyranny of the majority. As is has been said before, rights are the children of the law and human rights are possible only in societies that are governed by the rules of law.  Some members of minority groups, such as homosexuals, blacks and women have been able to assert rights mainly in societies that are democratic and governed by the law. It is interesting to note that women are the only majority group that need to seek rights as the members of a minority group, because men have established their access to the law and power throughout history.

When and how you found out about your sexual orientation?

When I was 7 years old, my best friend and I were competing to be the first in the class, but that was not all that we had in common, we also had a crush on each other. Growing up, I was not attracted to boys, but enjoyed the company of girls. Rather than playing with dolls, I liked playing with Legos, fixing things and reading science magazines.

Being from the north, my parents were very open- minded. I had two cousins that were lesbians. I remember clearly that my mom would shop for clothes for her sister's daughter's girlfriend as she would shop for us. Although, my aunt was not proud of the fact that her daughter had a girlfriend, they tolerated the relationship.

As for me, my mother knew that I was a lesbian before I did. When I was 16 years old, she told me that I better accept who I am rather than trying to be something that I am not and get a boyfriend. Knowing that swimming upstream would be difficult, I ignored my mother's advice and tried to blend in by having a boyfriend in my freshman year. It was meeting an American lesbian in Berkeley that brought me out to myself and to the world.

How would you describe the Iranian society of your youth and their attitude regarding sexual diversity?

My experiences with Iranian society's attitude towards sexual diversity are limited to living in Rasht and Tehran. One of my earlier memories growing up in Rasht was that I would accompany my mother to her tailor, Jorra, an Armenian gay man who was sought after for his skills as an excellent clothing designer.  While being gay was nothing to be proud of, I do remember people around me who were openly gay and lesbian. When I was growing up, there was a very popular program on TV called "Italia Italia" and one of the main characters of this series was a gay man by name of Hoshee, who was a hairdresser to the female cast. While being gay was taboo, it was also tolerated. My own lesbian cousin had a very popular pharmacy in Rasht. 

Do you have contact with Iranian lesbians?

I am in close contact with an Iranian lesbian whom I met in Berkeley 25 years ago. I also know of a few other Iranian lesbians, but unfortunately I am not in close contact with them.  My spouse and I have been together for 12 years and both of us lead very busy lives.  Our interactions with lesbians in general and Iranian lesbians in particular are limited, but our Foosball competitors with whom we play many rounds of Foosball are a gay couple, one Iranian and the other from Guam.

Congratulation, you got married with your girlfriend few months ago and you were the first Iranian lesbian who got married in California. Why did you decide to get married and what does marriage means to you?

Thank you for your well wishes. Elizabeth and I before we actually met each other and independent from one another, had written a list of qualities that we hoped our future partner would posses. When I met her, I realized that she was so perfect in that she not only fulfilled the requirements; she even exceeded them by far.  I could not even order her as I was not aware that all these great qualities that she posses could come in one human being! I guess that answers your question why I married her. 

We first got married on February 13, 2004, the day before Valentine's day in San Francisco City Hall, when Mayor Gavin Newsom had instructed the city clerks to issue licences to same-sex couples. In August, 2004 the California Supreme Court nullified the marriage of 8000 homosexuals, including ours.  In May 2008, the very Court that deprived same-sex couples from getting married in 2004 said that preventing same-sex couples from marrying their partners violates their rights under the California Constitution. The California Supreme Court Chief Justice Ronald George (a Republican) writing for the majority said that depriving same-sex couples from their constitutional right of marring whom they love, will further marginalize and push them to a second class citizenship. They held that same-sex couples had the right to get married starting June 17, 2008.  My spouse, Elizabeth, who is a Civil Rights lawyer in San Francisco, was among the first to secure an appointment with the San Francisco Clerk's office, the very first day that the same-sex couples were legally able to get married in California.

To me marriage is announcing my commitment to the one that I love with our friends and family as the witness to this commitment.  In almost all societies, married couples benefit from the laws that govern their societies. The term marriage has a clear connotation in state and federal laws.  While same-sex couples (and some opposite-sex couples) were able to benefit from "domestic partnership," same-sex couples were not able to fully benefit from laws already on the books until the ban on same-sex marriage was lifted by the California Supreme Court. As you may know, the marriages in California are not recognized by the U.S federal government, therefore, while same-sex couples can enjoy their rights in California, they do not benefit from federal laws.

What does marriage means to your families?

Marriage meant the world to us and to our family members, especially to Elizabeth's mother. A judge herself, she was very happy that the law that she had adhered to in her profession, finally gave her daughter the right to get married to the person that she loves.  Four years ago, when we first got married I noticed that while she always was very loving and kind to me, seeing her daughter marry me made me a member of the family.  I guess some people are traditional!

Also, as the ban on same-sex marriage was lifted in California on May 2008 and more same-sex couples express their love for one another publicly, gay rights have expanded.  Because of  our society's sanction of some gay rights, there will be fewer teenage gays who commit suicide and more homosexuals who are able to come out of closets and live their lives freely creating a visible critical mass that will extend the gay rights around the world. 

Do you have any plans to have another person in your family, a cute baby?

Before Elizabeth and I got serious about our relationship, we did have a conversation about having kids.  Fortunately, we both agreed that the world was already over populated and having kids, would alter our lives and focus from doing what is important to us.  Also, we both like traveling and seeing how other people live, having children would make our travels different if not difficult. 

Are you aware about Iranian lesbian activities? Do you know about Hamjens-e man magazine?

I have not been involved with Iranian lesbian activities and just recently got to know the Hamjens-e man magazine.  I am looking forward to reading the current and back issues as soon as possible.

What is your point of view about IRanian Queer Organization?

I just recently became familiar with Iranian Queer Organization and think it is a great resource for Iranian queers inside and outside of Iran. I metArsham Parsi in Mountain View while being interviewed by Iranican and Iranian youth radio that wanted to have a program on Iranian homosexuals.  I was very impressed by Arsham and the fact that despite being very young, he was an ardent activist for Iranian queers' rights.

Do you know about queer's situation in Iran?

My knowledge of queer's situation in Iran is limited to what the western media covers.  I also have an Iranian lesbian friend that travels to Iran every year to visit her family and shares her experiences as a lesbian visiting Iran.

How Iranian queer movement can work with other movements in Iran?

Geographical distance from Iran has created an emotional distance for me.  I am not very familiar with queer or other movements in Iran, but I imagine collaborating and joining forces with other marginalized and disenfranchised groups like women, members of minorities groups like Jews and Bahiaswould strengthen their position.  

How western organization can support our cause?

The western media is doing an OK job exposing the brutality by which the Iranian regime silences and kills the queers in Iran.  Footage of stoning homosexuals have made it to the western media but not the main stream media.  Collaborating with the Human Rights Campaign and other non-governmental Organizations (NGOs), will help a Public Relation campaign and possibly its way to the main stream media.

Are you optimistic about change in Iran for queer people?

As I mentioned earlier, rights are the children of law. Iran is the most lawless country that I have been to.  It is true that many third world countries are lawless and corrupt, but in many of these countries, you can pay your way out.  In Iran, you can pay and still not be able to get out.  Elizabeth used to insist that we would go to Iran and my answer always was, you go to Iran by your own will and you come out with God's will ( I usually don't believe in God, but sometimes it is handy to believe in God just to show a point). It seems so random that you could go out to run errands and have a conflict with the wrong person who has ties to the police or the Revolutionary Guard and that could possibly be the end of you.

Having said that, I am optimistic about the advancement of the rights of the queers in the world in general and in Iran in particular.  Around the world, especially in western countries, younger people are not against homosexual rights, but in almost all these countries, the people enjoy the rule of law and order.  Before Iranian queers can enjoy their rights, the Iranian society has to become a democratic society.  But for some reason religious fundamentalism and democracy are mutually exclusive.  I am not aware of any democratic country that is run by a theocratic government, therefore Iranian queers would benefit by collaborating with other forces for democracy.

What would you say if someone asking you to send a message to all Iranian queers?

On the day that Elizabeth and I got married, I was interviewed by Human Rights Campaign. Asked how I felt about the historic day, I said that gaining the right to get married to the love of my life was bittersweet.  As I knew that while I was celebrating, my LGBT brothers and sisters were living in oppression and their very existence was at risk in Iran.

Despite all challenges, the Iranian queer community should hope for a better tomorrow.  Changes happen in increments, sometimes quickly and sometimes slowly.  Gay rights has taken a big leap forward in California and other parts of the western societies, while it is crawling in other parts of the world, including Iran.  Twenty years ago, gaining the right to get married was unfathomable to many same-sex couples, but here we are reaping the benefits of what we sowed years ago. A thousand mile journey starts with the first step, and based on the documentaries that I have seen about the life of Iranian queers, I know that they have taken many steps toward equality.

Thank you for your time and we are hoping to have your support and collaboration in future.

Thank you for the opportunity and including me in this dialogue.  Your readers can contact me at mali.kigasari@gmai.com.

مطالب چراغ را همراه با اسم چراغ بازچاپ کنید.